Want to see how worthless vague religious labels can be when used in the mainstream press? Here’s a classic example from an ongoing story in Jackson, Mich., where a priest who backs church traditions — which ones, we are never really told — is clashing with many leaders in a “progressive” Catholic parish.
Here’s the top of the report in the Jackson Citizen Patriot:
The Rev. Jeffrey Robideau has rubbed some members of Our Lady of Fatima Catholic Church the wrong way, but others are lauding him for being “a real priest.”
“He makes me want to be a better Catholic, and I hope people will give him a chance,” said parishioner Penny Marino of Cambridge Township in Lenawee County.
The heart of the debate seems to be whether placing a traditional priest in a progressive parish like Fatima — which has embraced practices like female altar servers and blessing children during communion — was a good move.
It appears to have had a polarizing effect on parish members, some of whom recently organized a parishwide meeting at a location outside the church and began passing a petition calling for Robideau’s removal. … A spokesman has said Bishop Earl Boyea would review the situation this week.
Now that passage gives us two issues that supposedly illustrate the split in the parish. The issue of female altar servers is one that has been debated for years and this, as I understand it, is basically an issue that the Vatican has left up to local bishops. Please correct me if I am wrong. As for the issue of blessing children during Holy Communion, I have no clue what that is about. I need more information to understand what is supposed to be divisive about this, which is kind of the whole point.
Even a brief scanning of the comments on this story reveals that something is indeed happening here. It sounds like a pretty normal battle between a doctrinally conservative priest and a large American congregation that has become used to running things its own way. But maybe there is more going on.
In a follow-up report, readers were given a bit more information:
Among their concerns are the priest’s refusal to train girls to perform altar services and his decision to disband the choir. He’s also refused to hold any church committee meetings, parishioners have said.
“He doesn’t seem to care how he hurts people,” said Delores Walsh, a member for 28 years who recently left the parish because of Robideau.
OK, I’m more confused. What church “tradition” is at stake in a priest’s refusal to hold “any” church committee meetings, if that statement is factually accurate? Is this an allusion to him having a higher, more authoritarian concept of the priesthood? Again, how could a priest do that without some permission from the diocese?
Now, the choir issue — backed with a later statement that Robideau has banned Protestant hymns — could be a clue that there is a true liturgical war going on. I wonder if there are people in the parish who, for years, have been silenced in their criticism of worship services there? I wonder if there have been battles over the rosary, adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, kneeling to receive Holy Communion, etc.? We don’t know if, in fact, there are two sides of this story. How divided is this large parish?
Supporters of the “traditionalist” priest, as well as critics, have taken to the comments pages to express their views — a fact that is now affecting the coverage.
“Finally we have a priest in Jackson … a real priest … who is out to help us save our souls. Isn’t that what holiness is about?” wrote one reader.
Marino, who joined Fatima a few years ago, said she understands where her fellow parishioners are coming from. She came from a church that was very traditional so Robideau’s style was comforting to her, she said. For those accustomed to a more progressive approach, it can be difficult.
“People need to be patient and understanding. He is filling the shoes of a man who was here a long time,” said Marino, referring to the now-retired Rev. Andy Dunne, who was Fatima’s priest for more than three decades.
The previous priest served the parish for more than three decades?!?!
There’s the story. Clearly, what we have here is an example of what is often called “great pastor” (or rabbi, or priest, or college president) syndrome. After that amount of time the structures of an organization — like the parish committees — truly reflect the beliefs, strengths and, yes, prejudices of the previous leader. Period.
Apparently, the diocese wanted a fresh start. But why? What has been going on in this parish that may have caused this episcopal reaction? Truth be told, we don’t know. Maybe there will be more facts, and fewer labels, in future stories.
Second photo: Father Jeffrey Robideau
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Comments (30) |
November 25, 2009, at 11:16 am
The blessing of children during communion, sometimes by priests and sometimes by the extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, is a practice that sprung up over the last few decades. Sometimes adults who aren’t receiving Holy Communion (Catholic or non-Catholic) will receive a blessing instead of Holy Communion.
Some see it as unnecessary since everyone receives a final blessing at the end of Mass. Some see it as welcoming all those who are in the line for Holy Communion.
It is clear that this is an unauthorized addition to the Mass since it is not included in the General Instructions of the Roman Missal.
Lots of ink has been spilled over this practice.
November 25, 2009, at 11:22 am
OK, now very traditional Catholic friends of mine have said that I, as an Orthodox Christian, can show respect for the validity of the Catholic sacraments by going forward to receive such a blessing.
I say this to note that this was not, in any way, and expression of anything “progressive.” If anything, it was the opposite.
So are the two sides in this really “traditionalist” vs. “progressive”?
What might this blessing mean to the Catholic left?
November 25, 2009, at 11:38 am
Members of the Orthodox Churches, who are in good standing, may receive penance, Holy Communion and last rites from a Catholic priest if requested. Now I believe the Orthodox Churches discourage their faithful from receiving sacraments from a Catholic priest.
So to “tmatt” you could receive Holy Communion at a Catholic Church provided you are properly disposed.
There is a strong “traditionalist” view that if you are not receiving Holy Communion, you should stay in the pew. The Communion line is to receive Holy Communion. You will get your blessing at the end of Mass.
November 25, 2009, at 12:18 pm
Coming from a traditional Anglican background and now a Latin Rite Catholic, I can certainly see both sides of the blessing argument. It certainly doesn’t fall within the usual “progressive” vs “traditional” labels, but an interesting story (to me, anyway) would be why certain liturgical variances are/were given a pass by the local Bishops and others were quashed.
November 25, 2009, at 1:03 pm
This caught my eye:
This sounds like both were ordered from a catalog.
For those of us who are not Catholic and thus not up on things, what is the difference between a progressive and a traditionalist RC parish? The presentations and commentary at GR seem to indicate that RCC are uniformly governed by doctrine which is presented as to be without variance. Am I misinformed? The article opens up a subject that I have been consistently told did not exist: variation in RC practice.
I agree with tmatt; I don’t fathom the problem with the committees. It appears the previous priest involved a great many members in the actual decisions about running the parish. One commentator makes an issue of how there were non-college educated people on these committees who did not defer to college-educated people. The story is confusing, and the commentary makes it even more bewildering.
On the music and choir. Several clergy I have known have always said the one imperative in running a church is:
. The choir can destroy a career more quickly than any other ecclesiastical agency. No non-Catholic music? No Bach, Handle or Cat Stevens? Why?
November 25, 2009, at 1:08 pm
Yes, that’s the major problem. People grow to think that the way their parish does things is the only way to go. Catholics are usually supposed to belong to their geographical parish and over the years are exposed to many different personalities. That way you grow to understand what is the core and what is just personality driven. It’s the religion itself that is important, not the particular priest.
It’s to avoid this kind of problem that Catholic bishops move and re-assign priests on a regular basis. Some of the complaints about moving the molesting priests around was actually the usual shifting of assignments. (Not all, but some.)
As a member of a church choir I can see where an entire choir might have to be disbanded after 30 years of singing songs that are heretical. Some Protestant hymns are just fine, but other popular ones I’ve heard in Catholic churches reflect a Reformed, Calvanist theology that is antithetical to Catholic belief.
If the previous pastor was there for over 30 years, he was probably very big on what is called the “spirit” of Vatican II and the parish has gotten used to its excesses.
November 25, 2009, at 1:13 pm
I have seen people carrying a child when receiving Communion - the priest blesses the child. I have also seen people crossing their arms across their chest to indicate they are not asking for Communion and the priest will bless them. None of this appears in any approved liturgy books. Some priests will do it and others think it is out of line.
But nobody is going to be excommunicated over it.
The girls as altar servers is a problem. I have heard from church workers that when girls start serving, then its hard to get the boys to do it any more. It sure looks to me like there aren’t many boy servers left at my parish. I have 4 brothers, 3 sons and 2 grandsons. I’m not surprised the young boys are decamping.
November 25, 2009, at 1:26 pm
The article has the typical religious beat reporters’ problems with numbers. We are told that 200 members attended a meeting and that 150 of the 200 signed a petition. The only way to make sense of this is to know how many members the church has. (In Chicago, years ago, parishes counted membership by families not individuals. It was not unheard of for a parish to have over 2,000 families as members.) So, if this parish has 400 families, the 200 might be a big deal. Or it might not. If the parish has 1,000 families, it probably isn’t.
November 25, 2009, at 1:30 pm
Julia informs us that choirs may be:
Could you elaborate? Is Handel’s I Know that My Redeemer Liveth heresy? What about Cat Steven’s Peace Train? I would imagine Amazing Grace is heresy, but really don’t know.
November 25, 2009, at 2:26 pm
The Rev. Jeffrey Robideau has rubbed some members of Our Lady of Fatima Catholic Church the wrong way…
I wish they hadn’t used this phrasing, in light of the most common kind of priest story.
November 25, 2009, at 2:49 pm
“I have heard from church workers that when girls start serving, then its hard to get the boys to do it any more. ”
Why?
November 25, 2009, at 3:31 pm
Same reason it’s hard to get boys to play with dolls or have tea parties. Boys don’t want do things they consider girly.
November 25, 2009, at 3:50 pm
What’s with the hat? 50 years a Catholic and I’ve never seen a parish priest in the US wearing one of these.
November 25, 2009, at 4:52 pm
That hat is called a biretta, and it’s part of the old-style priestly uniform, but that’s all I know.
According to the comments on the articles, this priest isn’t very forthcoming. He may have some points, like taking out Protestant hymns, but if he really also does things like “bless you in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of horseback riding…whoops!” at the end of Mass, that would rub me the wrong way.
The reporting lack is there aren’t sufficient specifics to tell what the problem(s) are. If I weren’t reading the comnents I’d not understand.
November 25, 2009, at 5:09 pm
This is interesting to me as well. We need to understand that sometimes parish practices (including liturgical ones) are often left to the discretion of the individual priest. They do not fall into the progressive/traditional dichotomy. As Freud said, “sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”
I see this a lot: in my relatively short time as an Orthodox Christian, I’ve been a member of three parishes, and there are liturgical variations in each one. So much depends on what the priest wants/is comfortable with, the resources of the parish, etc. To my knowledge, no one has ever accused one of my pastors of being unorthodox (note the small ‘o’).
All this assumes, of course, that the local bishop hasn’t proscribed the liturgical variation in question; if he has, and the priest defies him, that is a different matter altogether.
November 25, 2009, at 5:12 pm
Several commentors to the article complain that the priest mangles the pronunciation of Polish names, which is easy to do. But it is also fairly easy to learn how to pronounce them.
November 25, 2009, at 5:15 pm
It was a part of the pre-Vatican II priestly regalia; “traditionalist” priests will still wear them sometimes, esp. when serving a Tridentine Mass.
November 25, 2009, at 6:00 pm
My kids are older now, but there was a point at which they were simply too young to be left in the pew when we approached for communion. Given that the Church wants us to be fruitful and multiply, this should be a common situation!
And yes, we have two daughters, both of whom were altar girls. They decided to do other masculine tasks as well: both are in the United States Army!
In our small parish, if it weren’t for the altar girls, we’d be very short on altar servers, period. There have been many times when we’d have only one male, the priest, at the altar, with three altar girls, a female lector, and three female Eucharistic ministers.
November 25, 2009, at 8:03 pm
I’m curious about the reporter’s use of “progressive” as a description for the parish in question. I’m Orthodox (raised Latin Rite Catholic), but from talking with friends and family over the past 10 years, female altar servers are present in a good many parishes.
November 26, 2009, at 8:29 am
tmatt says:
Even a brief scanning of the comments on this story reveals that something is indeed happening here. It sounds like a pretty normal battle between a doctrinally conservative priest and a large American congregation that has become used to running things its own way. But maybe there is more going on
I wonder what exactly is “doctrinally conservative” about those who support Fr. Robideau? How do the comments support viewing a “congregation used to running things its own way?”
Seems to me you are reading a lot into the comments, but then the story itself lacks a lot … the followup in particular focussing almost exclusively on the political (petition signatures). Oh, and then that last paragraph about Fr. R’s changes to the building design and the additional costs …
What does this sounds like to me, a cradle Catholic with some first-hand experience? A more authoritarian priest stepping into the shoes of a collaborative predecessor—and stepping on the toes of those his predecessor collaborated with. When any organization changes the style of management this drastically there will be friction. Some people welcome the authority figure, some don’t. Adaptations are made. This is not a matter of devils or angels but human nature.
There is no doctrine, one way or the other, about parish committees. There is no canon against blessing children who come with their parents to Communion. There is no law for or against kneeling to receive the Eucharist rather than receiving in the hand. The matter of whether or not girls CAN be (not MUST be) altar servers is for the bishop to decide. However, what works “on the ground” is what is generally done—or not.
There’s nothing “doctrinal” about positions on either the for or against sides of these issues. But there sure are strong feelings on both sides.
November 26, 2009, at 12:08 pm
I know someone who demanded How Dare a priest officiating at a requiem mass offer non-Catholics a blessing instead of giving them communion.
It seems They just can’t win.
November 26, 2009, at 12:47 pm
I probably shouldn’t have used as strong a word as heretical to describe hymns and musical songs or motets. Much music written by Protestants is just fine. But there are some that reflect a Protestant view of things that is very different from the Catholic view. Example: I love “Blessed Assurance”, but it has the flavor of once saved, always saved, which is definitely not the Catholic teaching. But we sing Amazing Grace frequently and love Anglican style chant as much as the Gregorian.
There are types of music that are great sung outside of Mass, but are not deemed to be appropriate for a liturgy. Lutherans and Episcopalians and the Orthodox would understand that.
Some Catholic choirs have become almost identical to “Praise” bands. My parish deals with that by having the so-called contemporary band on Saturday nights and the more traditional choir at the 10:30 on Sundays. People can pick which they prefer. Funny thing is, much of the music at the traditional choir Mass is written more recently than the “contemporary” music which is mostly from the 70s and 80s.
It sounds like the parish in the article only had one choir. We had a few singers in the Sunday choir who absolutely refused to sing anything in Latin, so they transferred to the Saturday group and everybody’s happy. When a church only has one choir, there is often a big battle over music.
November 26, 2009, at 2:00 pm
Reflecting on the Polish name issue, there is something I can see is a ghost in the story. Julia has said that generally Catholic parishes are organized geographically. This is frequently not the case in the Midwest and Northeast. There, even rather small towns will have RC churches organized by ethnic group. There was a town near where I grew up that had fewer than 5,000 people. And there were 3 RC churches; one Italian, one Polish and one Lithuanian. These identities held on even in the 4th generation. The churches were both for religion and for ethnic culture. Which makes changing anything, let alone merging, a battle royale. Just try to have a potluck with both Polish and Italian food, not possible.
This may be part of the situation here. The ethnic identities of the parishes should have been part of the coverage since the comments allude to it. What exacerbates the situation in many places is that while most of the laity is Eastern European the priests are mainly Irish.
Such arrangements are also typical of ELCA congregations.
November 26, 2009, at 9:58 pm
I’ve seen Episcopal priests wearing birettas more recently then 50 years ago. They really shouldn’t be wearing them because the biretta is in fact the academic cap that goes with the regalia of some Italian universities. Anglicans should be wearing Canterbury caps if they want to get fancy—the flatter, 4-cornered style you see on pictures of Cranmer, Laud, etc. Or the caps that go with their own universities’ regalia.
November 27, 2009, at 9:19 am
Important to separate out the managerial issues from the liturgical here. In the storyline, “Fr. Young Turk” shows up and disses all the lay leaders of the parish by asserting his new authority, rather than by “getting to know them” and building consensus. Sometimes, as a good CEO knows, you just have to chop off the dead wood.
Having watched these follies in several dioceses, I can tell you that these situations will only increase as the younger crop of priests is much more “conservative”. IMHO, the second Vatican Council called for lay people to step up in the local parish, and too many parishes took that to mean that they should be on the altar in a some kind of cha-cha line of service next to the priest. Spending so much time on the altar means that they have less time to be catechists and servants to the poor…and these ministries have taken less importance in many suburban parishes. That is not a good thing.
You become what you pray. There are nuances to everything, and I am sure that we are not getting the full story here. But, for my part, as a mom, I say let Fr. Young Turk have his time to assert his leadership. If his ideas don’t stick, then we can assert (with Gamaliel) that it is not “of God” to be so dictatorial in his approach.
November 27, 2009, at 9:25 am
oops - I meant conga line
November 27, 2009, at 11:32 am
dalea:
Parishes are geographical with boundaries. The ethnic parishes became such because they served ethnic neighborhoods where immigrants did not yet speak English. Once people dispersed some former parishioners crossed parish boundaries and continued to attend their former parish. Even the ethnic parishes have actual geographic boundaries, but in practice these are sometimes ignored.
The situation you describe is what the new provisions for ex-Anglicans will be. It’s an entirely new set-up super-imposed over the existing diocesan structures. The 3 Catholic churches in your hometown actually do have geographical boundaries, but people ignore them.
November 27, 2009, at 2:12 pm
Julia:
I heard these ethnic parishes referred to as Heritage Parishes which seems to indicate some sort of official approval. In some of them, the school would have classes teaching the ancestral language, classes in ethnic culture, history and literature. And frequently an outreach to new immigrants from the ancestral country. This is something I have been vaguely aware of but never thought much about it. But I do see how this may play into the situation here.
November 29, 2009, at 4:00 am
dalea:
All Catholic parishes are official because the bishop appoints the pastors and has some say in what is taught in school.
I know of a few local parishes like you describe and there are many in Chicago where I used to live. But most people have moved on. AND those churches were in ethnic neighborhoods where most everybody was - say, Polish or Irish or Italian. Technically a Catholic belongs to the parish in whose boundaries you reside. But exceptions can be made and there is some permissible fudging for a new immigrant to attend a church that facilitates their learning English.
This thing with the ex-Anglicans is a very new entity and it will be officially Anglican-flavored even in liturgy in a significant way that Polish and Irish and Italian and Filipino and Viet Namese parishes aren’t and never were.
December 5, 2009, at 1:12 am
I am from the parish our Lady of Fatima. I am just glad we were given a priest by the bishop. Many of our parishes in the area are being reduced to chapel status or closed. The article talked about some petty hurtful topics. I was very embarrassed by some of the comments made.