Comments on: The War on Whitsunday http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492 "The press . . . just doesn't get religion." -- William Schneider Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:32:53 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: MattK http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123786 MattK Tue, 13 May 2008 06:22:50 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123786 I grew up Pentecostal but only once heard mention that a certain Sunday was Pentecost Sunday. Now I'm Orthodox and Pentecost is my parish's feast day so the bishop and tons of visitors are there on that day. And then we eat a lot, drink, dance and sing.. Its interesting that I had to go from Pentecostal to Orthodox to get a good party on Pentecost. BTW I sang all of those songs when I was a Pentecostal, but all year long, not just on Pentecost, which most of the time I never even thought of. I grew up Pentecostal but only once heard mention that a certain Sunday was Pentecost Sunday. Now I’m Orthodox and Pentecost is my parish’s feast day so the bishop and tons of visitors are there on that day. And then we eat a lot, drink, dance and sing.. Its interesting that I had to go from Pentecostal to Orthodox to get a good party on Pentecost. BTW I sang all of those songs when I was a Pentecostal, but all year long, not just on Pentecost, which most of the time I never even thought of.

]]> By: FW Ken http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123772 FW Ken Tue, 13 May 2008 04:16:39 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123772 Come to think of it, when I became Episcopalian in 1971, I was taught the three great feasts were Easter, Christmas and Pentecost. By the time, I became Catholic in 1987, my Episcopal minister was speaking of Pentecost more as a completion of Easter and less as a separate feast. It's possible the Prayerbook revision of 1979 had an impact on that. Come to think of it, when I became Episcopalian in 1971, I was taught the three great feasts were Easter, Christmas and Pentecost. By the time, I became Catholic in 1987, my Episcopal minister was speaking of Pentecost more as a completion of Easter and less as a separate feast. It’s possible the Prayerbook revision of 1979 had an impact on that.

]]> By: Julia http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123731 Julia Mon, 12 May 2008 21:08:07 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123731 “Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me” was sung in my Catholic school. The others I don’t recognise." I've been singing most of my life in Catholic choirs and I don't recognize any of the hymns mentioned. On Pentecost we sang 4 Pentecost hymns, as well as the Responsorial Hymn - mostly variations of the ancient "Veni Creator Spiritus", such as "Come Holy Ghost, Creator Blest", "Blow Among Us Spirit of God", etc. as well as the venerable Latin hymn. “Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me” was sung in my Catholic school. The others I don’t recognise.”

I’ve been singing most of my life in Catholic choirs and I don’t recognize any of the hymns mentioned. On Pentecost we sang 4 Pentecost hymns, as well as the Responsorial Hymn - mostly variations of the ancient “Veni Creator Spiritus”, such as “Come Holy Ghost, Creator Blest”, “Blow Among Us Spirit of God”, etc. as well as the venerable Latin hymn.

]]> By: David (in Edinburgh) http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123707 David (in Edinburgh) Mon, 12 May 2008 19:00:58 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123707 Discussions of the 'invisibility' of Pentecost in much of the non-liturgical church could coincide very happily with an investigation into 'Father, Son, & Holy Bible' cessationist (ie. the antithesis of charismatic) theology. But that'd probably only be of use in the denominational press - just a wee bit too complex for MSM, I guess :) Ps. I know the same two songs as FW Ken - I think they're folky Jesus Movement tunes. Discussions of the ‘invisibility’ of Pentecost in much of the non-liturgical church could coincide very happily with an investigation into ‘Father, Son, & Holy Bible’ cessationist (ie. the antithesis of charismatic) theology. But that’d probably only be of use in the denominational press - just a wee bit too complex for MSM, I guess :)

Ps. I know the same two songs as FW Ken - I think they’re folky Jesus Movement tunes.

]]> By: FW Ken http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123705 FW Ken Mon, 12 May 2008 18:56:15 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123705 I've been thinking about it: when I came into the Episcopal Church in 1971, I was taught the three major festivals of Easter, Christmas and Pentecost. By the time I because Catholic in 1987, the talk was of Pentecost less as a separate feast and more of it as the completion of the Easter feast. I wonder if there was some re-thinking of that in the 70s/80s. I’ve been thinking about it: when I came into the Episcopal Church in 1971, I was taught the three major festivals of Easter, Christmas and Pentecost. By the time I because Catholic in 1987, the talk was of Pentecost less as a separate feast and more of it as the completion of the Easter feast. I wonder if there was some re-thinking of that in the 70s/80s.

]]> By: Anglican Music http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123701 Anglican Music Mon, 12 May 2008 18:32:12 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123701 <strong>Favorite Whitsunday hymn</strong> Over on GetReligion, Lutheran Mollie Hemingway (one of the would-be saviors of Issues Etc.) had a very good article on the limited coverage of Pentecost, the birth of the church. Favorite Whitsunday hymn

Over on GetReligion, Lutheran Mollie Hemingway (one of the would-be saviors of Issues Etc.) had a very good article on the limited coverage of Pentecost, the birth of the church.

]]> By: Martha http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123692 Martha Mon, 12 May 2008 17:10:37 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123692 "Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me" was sung in my Catholic school. The others I don't recognise. Maybe Pentecost would be more appealing to the press if the custom as celebrated in Rome was introduced? "http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/05/pentecost-at-the-pantheon-rose-petals-falling-through-the-oculus/ There is a tradition in Rome on Pentecost Sunday. At the Church S. Maria ad Martyres, the Pantheon, at the end of Mass red rose petals are let fall in great abundance through the oculus, the dome’s "eye" which is completely open to the sky. Fireman from Rome’s fire department scale the exterior of the dome and let the petals fall." I'm sure the florists would love an opportunity besides St. Valentine's Day to sell red roses! ;-) “Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me” was sung in my Catholic school. The others I don’t recognise.

Maybe Pentecost would be more appealing to the press if the custom as celebrated in Rome was introduced?

“http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/05/pentecost-at-the-pantheon-rose-petals-falling-through-the-oculus/

There is a tradition in Rome on Pentecost Sunday. At the Church S. Maria ad Martyres, the Pantheon, at the end of Mass red rose petals are let fall in great abundance through the oculus, the dome’s “eye” which is completely open to the sky. Fireman from Rome’s fire department scale the exterior of the dome and let the petals fall.”

I’m sure the florists would love an opportunity besides St. Valentine’s Day to sell red roses! ;-)

]]> By: Raider51 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123688 Raider51 Mon, 12 May 2008 16:39:55 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123688 I <em>love </em>the title - this is great! I love the title - this is great!

]]> By: Mark Byron http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123685 Mark Byron Mon, 12 May 2008 16:25:55 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123685 In evangelical circles, you have a double whammy; not only does Pentecost remind them of the liturgical stuff that smells either of Catholic or liturgical mainline Protestant, but Pentecost reminds them of Pentecost<em>als</em>. That's something that Baptist and other non-charismatic evangelicals often want to avoid getting into a discussion about. In charismatic circles, Pentecost is happily mentioned in many churches at this time of year. In evangelical circles, you have a double whammy; not only does Pentecost remind them of the liturgical stuff that smells either of Catholic or liturgical mainline Protestant, but Pentecost reminds them of Pentecostals. That’s something that Baptist and other non-charismatic evangelicals often want to avoid getting into a discussion about.

In charismatic circles, Pentecost is happily mentioned in many churches at this time of year.

]]> By: Chris Bolinger http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123656 Chris Bolinger Mon, 12 May 2008 12:31:31 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123656 Mollie, we sang "Breathe on me breath of God" and "Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me" in LCA and ELCA churches while I was growing up. The LCMS needs to get with the program. :-) Mollie, we sang “Breathe on me breath of God” and “Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me” in LCA and ELCA churches while I was growing up. The LCMS needs to get with the program. :-)

]]> By: Mark V. http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123654 Mark V. Mon, 12 May 2008 12:07:24 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123654 Mollie: In the Orthodox Church, Pascha (Easter) is the Feast of Feasts and occupies a rank not equalled by even the 12 Great Feasts. I don't think one can speak about the "top 3" since Orthodoxy revolves more around seasons. For example, Theophany in the East celebrates the Lord's Baptism rather than the adoration of the Magi (which is folded into the Feast of the Lord's Nativity). Theophany is seen as the culmination of the 12 days of Christmas and the entire season is celebrated in a more integrated manner than the West. In the same manner, Ascension and Pentecost are seen as the end of the Paschal season. We even have a feast called Mid-Pentecost halfway in the middle of Pascha and Pentecost. Pentecost is also called Trinity Sunday in Orthodoxy. Since many Orthodox parishes are named after the Holy Trinity (including my own parish), it is a very important day as the parish celebrates its patronal feast. Moreover, we have kept the original date of All Saints' Day, which falls on the Sunday after Pentecost. The saints are seen as the fruit of the Holy Spirit, and it is an occasion to preach about our own ministries. I hope this helps and leads to more relevant media understanding of this important feast. Christ is Risen, Mark Mollie:

In the Orthodox Church, Pascha (Easter) is the Feast of Feasts and occupies a rank not equalled by even the 12 Great Feasts. I don’t think one can speak about the “top 3” since Orthodoxy revolves more around seasons. For example, Theophany in the East celebrates the Lord’s Baptism rather than the adoration of the Magi (which is folded into the Feast of the Lord’s Nativity). Theophany is seen as the culmination of the 12 days of Christmas and the entire season is celebrated in a more integrated manner than the West. In the same manner, Ascension and Pentecost are seen as the end of the Paschal season. We even have a feast called Mid-Pentecost halfway in the middle of Pascha and Pentecost. Pentecost is also called Trinity Sunday in Orthodoxy. Since many Orthodox parishes are named after the Holy Trinity (including my own parish), it is a very important day as the parish celebrates its patronal feast. Moreover, we have kept the original date of All Saints’ Day, which falls on the Sunday after Pentecost. The saints are seen as the fruit of the Holy Spirit, and it is an occasion to preach about our own ministries. I hope this helps and leads to more relevant media understanding of this important feast.

Christ is Risen,
Mark

]]> By: Mollie http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123629 Mollie Mon, 12 May 2008 04:54:20 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123629 Christopher, Are you sure about that? I know that "top 3" is not something that the Eastern Church would say (which is why I specified the Western Church) but are you sure that it wouldn't be in the top 3 major feasts? Some of my Orthodox friends claim Pentecost is second only to Pascha. Others say that all of the Great 12 are, well, great. Is there any official word on this? Christopher,

Are you sure about that? I know that “top 3” is not something that the Eastern Church would say (which is why I specified the Western Church) but are you sure that it wouldn’t be in the top 3 major feasts? Some of my Orthodox friends claim Pentecost is second only to Pascha. Others say that all of the Great 12 are, well, great. Is there any official word on this?

]]> By: Christopher Orr http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123628 Christopher Orr Mon, 12 May 2008 04:43:47 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123628 In the Orthodox Church, the top 3, major Christian feasts would not include Pentecost. The top 3 are, in order: Pascha (Easter), Theophany (Epiphany) and Christmas. After that would likely fall Annunciation, then perhaps Pentecost, though there is no strict ranking. An Orthodox Christian would thus 'fail' the test referred to in the piece. In the Orthodox Church, the top 3, major Christian feasts would not include Pentecost. The top 3 are, in order: Pascha (Easter), Theophany (Epiphany) and Christmas. After that would likely fall Annunciation, then perhaps Pentecost, though there is no strict ranking.

An Orthodox Christian would thus ‘fail’ the test referred to in the piece.

]]> By: Jen Ambrose http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123619 Jen Ambrose Mon, 12 May 2008 03:46:37 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123619 I think you could get a good "secularization" angle on Pentecost---if you went to Germany. Pentecost weekend is a huge legal holiday there. At one time I worked for a German company in the US and many of my colleagues in Germany took the long weekend to travel, but never go to church. I think you could get a good “secularization” angle on Pentecost—-if you went to Germany. Pentecost weekend is a huge legal holiday there. At one time I worked for a German company in the US and many of my colleagues in Germany took the long weekend to travel, but never go to church.

]]> By: FW Ken http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492&cpage=1#comment-123616 FW Ken Mon, 12 May 2008 03:39:06 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3492#comment-123616 The hymns really are interesting. 2 and 4 (below) I've never heard of, and I've been singing in church choirs for most of the past 40 years. 1 and 3 I know from Baptist and evangelical traditions, where Pentecost isn't generally observed. One of his sources was the BBC, so maybe that explains it. 1.) <a href="http://cyberhymnal.org/htm/b/o/bombog.htm" rel="nofollow">"Breathe on me breath of God"</a> 2.) <a href="http://www.oremus.org/hymnal/t/t487.html" rel="nofollow">“There’s a spirit in the air,”</a> 3.) <a href="http://www.viadecristo.lv/eng/dievagars1.html" rel="nofollow">“Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me”</a> 4.) <a href="http://cyberhymnal.org/htm/o/b/obreathl.htm" rel="nofollow">“O Breath of Life, come sweeping through us”</a> The hymns really are interesting. 2 and 4 (below) I’ve never heard of, and I’ve been singing in church choirs for most of the past 40 years. 1 and 3 I know from Baptist and evangelical traditions, where Pentecost isn’t generally observed. One of his sources was the BBC, so maybe that explains it.

1.) “Breathe on me breath of God”

2.) “There’s a spirit in the air,”

3.) “Spirit of the Living God, fall afresh on me”

4.) “O Breath of Life, come sweeping through us”

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