Comments on: Make the story more catholic http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505 "The press . . . just doesn't get religion." -- William Schneider Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:32:53 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Zak http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124586 Zak Tue, 20 May 2008 19:38:35 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124586 Cardinal Ratzinger did not discipline the Archbishop of Seattle. Pope John Paul II did, in the sense of appointing a coadjutator (Wuerl, as you say), who was responsible for much of the administration of the diocese. Even that was complicated, controversial, and somewhat limited in scope. Cardinal Ratzinger did not discipline the Archbishop of Seattle. Pope John Paul II did, in the sense of appointing a coadjutator (Wuerl, as you say), who was responsible for much of the administration of the diocese. Even that was complicated, controversial, and somewhat limited in scope.

]]> By: Jimmy Mac http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124360 Jimmy Mac Sat, 17 May 2008 22:46:02 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124360 Maybe the secular media recognize that "flocks" are full of sheep, and until the sexual abuse matters were uncovered, most Catholic were happy to be good little sheep. No more. No more. Maybe the secular media recognize that “flocks” are full of sheep, and until the sexual abuse matters were uncovered, most Catholic were happy to be good little sheep. No more. No more.

]]> By: Julia http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124213 Julia Fri, 16 May 2008 17:33:04 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124213 hrh: Sorry to get your dander up. I grew up in a family that paid a lot of attention to the use of words. My mother was an English major; I have three brothers with journalism degrees and the other one is often an expert witness in court where words are very important. I'm a retired attorney so I pay a lot of attention to the use and meaning of words. "Flock" is not used, or rarely used, in my diocese within the Catholic media. It is sometimes referenced in homilies on the Sunday when the gospel about the Good Shepard is read, but that's about all I ever hear it used. But it is used frequently by the secular media to describe us. I'm just wondering why. hrh:

Sorry to get your dander up. I grew up in a family that paid a lot of attention to the use of words. My mother was an English major; I have three brothers with journalism degrees and the other one is often an expert witness in court where words are very important. I’m a retired attorney so I pay a lot of attention to the use and meaning of words.

“Flock” is not used, or rarely used, in my diocese within the Catholic media. It is sometimes referenced in homilies on the Sunday when the gospel about the Good Shepard is read, but that’s about all I ever hear it used. But it is used frequently by the secular media to describe us. I’m just wondering why.

]]> By: Chris Molter http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124175 Chris Molter Fri, 16 May 2008 13:25:44 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124175 The instances of telepathic and precognitive powers by some of the posters here is astounding. The instances of telepathic and precognitive powers by some of the posters here is astounding.

]]> By: str1977 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124150 str1977 Fri, 16 May 2008 08:04:14 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124150 Why is it somehow acceptable to impersonate a late great author and pretend that one is "reporting from heaven", make claims about who is in heaven and who is not. All this combined with smearing the Church and calling for Catholics to all quit their Church? Why is it somehow acceptable to impersonate a late great author and pretend that one is “reporting from heaven”, make claims about who is in heaven and who is not. All this combined with smearing the Church and calling for Catholics to all quit their Church?

]]> By: hrh http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124135 hrh Fri, 16 May 2008 04:32:35 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124135 FW Ken writes, " They had a list of 19 bishops who have been accused of sexual abuse, but not a similar list of bishops accused of facilitating abusers." That's an easy one: they've ALL done it. And slowly, inevitably, they will be exposed. Count on it. FW Ken writes, ” They had a list of 19 bishops who have been accused of sexual abuse, but not a similar list of bishops accused of facilitating abusers.”

That’s an easy one: they’ve ALL done it. And slowly, inevitably, they will be exposed. Count on it.

]]> By: FW Ken http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124132 FW Ken Fri, 16 May 2008 04:23:21 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124132 There are plenty of faithful Catholics who have been pretty disgusted that in the 2002 charter that was supposed to protect children, the bishops sidestepped self-discipline and scapegoated the priests and, in some cases, even the laity in this entire affair. Fr. Richard John Neuhaus comes to mind. Including some of those voices in the mix would certainly have improved the story, as would a bit more clarity on timeframes. This seminarian accused in 2003 is still awaiting arraignment in 2008? It would help if the reporter had made stronger cases for the allegations and given a few more facts. I can't see where Bp. Sevilla actually engaged in covering up, or shuffling priests around. He might have, of course, but that's not the allegation. It was good to see names named: too often, people rant on about "the bishops" who ought to be disciplined, but I wonder who they are. We know about Mahoney, and the one case in Chicago, but I'd not heard of Sevilla. The Bishop Accountability site was certainly interesting. They had a list of 19 bishops who have been accused of sexual abuse, but not a similar list of bishops accused of facilitating abusers. There are plenty of faithful Catholics who have been pretty disgusted that in the 2002 charter that was supposed to protect children, the bishops sidestepped self-discipline and scapegoated the priests and, in some cases, even the laity in this entire affair. Fr. Richard John Neuhaus comes to mind. Including some of those voices in the mix would certainly have improved the story, as would a bit more clarity on timeframes. This seminarian accused in 2003 is still awaiting arraignment in 2008? It would help if the reporter had made stronger cases for the allegations and given a few more facts. I can’t see where Bp. Sevilla actually engaged in covering up, or shuffling priests around. He might have, of course, but that’s not the allegation.

It was good to see names named: too often, people rant on about “the bishops” who ought to be disciplined, but I wonder who they are. We know about Mahoney, and the one case in Chicago, but I’d not heard of Sevilla. The Bishop Accountability site was certainly interesting. They had a list of 19 bishops who have been accused of sexual abuse, but not a similar list of bishops accused of facilitating abusers.

]]> By: Brian Walden http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124129 Brian Walden Fri, 16 May 2008 03:29:12 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124129 "indeed spell out what can, or cannot, be done Mr. Walden." Excommunication is not "irrevocable" - there is no such thing as the irrevocable excommunication that you call for. You make yourself greater than God if you think you can deny a person the ability to repent. You speak nonsense in your posts. “indeed spell out what can, or cannot, be done Mr. Walden.”

Excommunication is not “irrevocable” - there is no such thing as the irrevocable excommunication that you call for. You make yourself greater than God if you think you can deny a person the ability to repent. You speak nonsense in your posts.

]]> By: Joel http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124125 Joel Fri, 16 May 2008 02:53:55 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124125 <i>But until that boycott of laity revenue reaches CRITICAL MASS, the curia PRETEND there are no such violators.</i> The laity aren't going to boycott the Church with their offerings, because the offerings aren't meant for the bishops. They're given to God, through the Church. Nor would it matter if they did, in the long run. The Church is not merely another business. If there was no revenue, the clergy would continue to minister, as they did in the catacombs. But until that boycott of laity revenue reaches CRITICAL MASS, the curia PRETEND there are no such violators.

The laity aren’t going to boycott the Church with their offerings, because the offerings aren’t meant for the bishops. They’re given to God, through the Church. Nor would it matter if they did, in the long run. The Church is not merely another business. If there was no revenue, the clergy would continue to minister, as they did in the catacombs.

]]> By: Joel http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124107 Joel Fri, 16 May 2008 00:22:01 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124107 HRH, I've seen the list of accused Yakima priests on bishopaccountability.org, and it seems that most of the accusations are exactly that - accusations. Being accused is not prima facie evidence of guilt, especially now that it's become profitable to make those accusations. Thing is, there really isn't a lot that anybody can do to discipline a bishop. The people demanding "accountability" are forgetting that the Church isn't a democracy. The bishops are accountable to the pope, but not to the same extent that you or I are accountable to our bosses. In any case, the bishops are emphatically NOT accountable to the laity. I think that's something the article could have gotten across better. HRH, I’ve seen the list of accused Yakima priests on bishopaccountability.org, and it seems that most of the accusations are exactly that - accusations. Being accused is not prima facie evidence of guilt, especially now that it’s become profitable to make those accusations.

Thing is, there really isn’t a lot that anybody can do to discipline a bishop. The people demanding “accountability” are forgetting that the Church isn’t a democracy. The bishops are accountable to the pope, but not to the same extent that you or I are accountable to our bosses. In any case, the bishops are emphatically NOT accountable to the laity. I think that’s something the article could have gotten across better.

]]> By: Brian Walden http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124100 Brian Walden Thu, 15 May 2008 23:32:39 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124100 Post #5 "...or alternatively, each irrevocably EXCOMMUNICATED" ...umm, I'm no canon lawyer but I don't think the Church has the authority to irrevocably excommunicate anyone. Post #5 “…or alternatively, each irrevocably EXCOMMUNICATED”

…umm, I’m no canon lawyer but I don’t think the Church has the authority to irrevocably excommunicate anyone.

]]> By: Brian Walden http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124096 Brian Walden Thu, 15 May 2008 23:25:38 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124096 My question is where are the police in this? If there's evidence that a Bishop has aided someone in committing sexual crimes where are the criminal charges? My question is where are the police in this? If there’s evidence that a Bishop has aided someone in committing sexual crimes where are the criminal charges?

]]> By: hrh http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124086 hrh Thu, 15 May 2008 21:57:10 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124086 If anyone, including Ms Salman, is truly interested in getting the lowdown on the Yakima bish, one couldn't do better than www.bishop-accountability.org. WARNING: Don't go there unless you REALLY want to know about the antics of the US Bish Club. It's definitely not for the Kool-Aid drinking set. If anyone, including Ms Salman, is truly interested in getting the lowdown on the Yakima bish, one couldn’t do better than http://www.bishop-accountability.org.

WARNING: Don’t go there unless you REALLY want to know about the antics of the US Bish Club. It’s definitely not for the Kool-Aid drinking set.

]]> By: hrh http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124085 hrh Thu, 15 May 2008 21:51:29 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124085 Julia: I don't know what "Catholic circles" you travel in, but this is probably the most commonly used word to depict not only Catholics, but adherents to other religions. Maybe you should get out more. Julia: I don’t know what “Catholic circles” you travel in, but this is probably the most commonly used word to depict not only Catholics, but adherents to other religions. Maybe you should get out more.

]]> By: Julia http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505&cpage=1#comment-124083 Julia Thu, 15 May 2008 21:42:32 +0000 http://www.getreligion.org/?p=3505#comment-124083 <blockquote>flock </blockquote> In Catholic circles this word is not used very much. Why does the press seem to get such a kick out of using it to refer to parishioners and Catholics in a particular diocese?

flock

In Catholic circles this word is not used very much. Why does the press seem to get such a kick out of using it to refer to parishioners and Catholics in a particular diocese?

]]>