Comments on: Those ties that bind and divide

By: E M

E M — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:37:15 +0000

As an ex-Episcopalian, now North American Anglican, I loved the joke because it is so true. When do you bail on your church family? Lots of us stayed too long and we should be honest about it. Our family left some ten years ago, but there was so little for us in other churches. Where do you go when you are a traditional christian? We tried the Catholic Church (no Mary prayer please), Non denominational church (Jesus in Jeans), Baptist church (they never have communion),Reformed (just ten years or so behind the Episcopalians) and others. The American church at large is very seeker oriented and there is no place for traditional Christians who are also very conservative politically and biblical.
Now with the North American Anglican we finally have a real church home and family.

By: tmatt

tmatt — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 11:10:28 +0000

Lockwood has posted links to his email dialogue with Goodstein of the NYTs.

http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/new-york-times-again-ignores-own-ethical-policies

And Goodstein’s response here:

http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/nyt-reporter-admits-she-did-dateline-toe-touch-asks-bbb-to-take-down-post

We now know that the Times had a reporter there at the events in Anaheim. We also know that Goodstein says that she wrote the story after arriving in Anaheim.

As for the quotes that came from press releases, I am not convinced that the quotes did not come from public press conferences — THEN were used in the press releases. That happens all the time.

OK, reporters: If a group hands out a statement (or posts it online) to all reporters from its leader — like the Integrity quote — you quote that as a press statement.

But what if its used in a press conference AND in the release? Doesn’t the publicly aired quote stand on its own?

By: Davis

Davis — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 01:11:59 +0000

But a NYT reporter was on the ground, it just wasn’t Goodstein. And she was in Anaheim when she wrote the story, based on reporting done by a NYT contributor who was in Anaheim. ….

By: Chris Bolinger

Chris Bolinger — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 00:12:05 +0000

The joke rocks, Terry.

By: Frank Lockwood

Frank Lockwood — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 23:57:06 +0000

Yes,
But this reporting was not done in Anaheim and, hence, it is unethical to slap an Anaheim dateline on it. Other than failing to attribute where some of the information came from, there’s no problem with this story if the NY Times is honest and admits it is based on reporting that was done outside of Orange County.

P.S. I have posted Ms. Goodstein’s response on my blog.

By: tmatt

tmatt — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:49:01 +0000

Frank:

The NYTs report ends with:

Rebecca Cathcart contributed reporting from Los Angeles.

It is more than possible that the story was written based, in large part, on audio recordings from public forums and press conferences which were then either transcribed or emailed to New York.

I have covered MANY an event through similar digital recordings made for me by someone on the scene. It’s amazing how fast this kind of information can be shipped around.

The third and fourth paragraphs seem to me solid statements based on how the General Convention and Anglican Communion work.

In all, the story doesn’t bother me that much — other than the usual issues about defining the time frame and scope of the conflict so narrowly.

By: Frank Lockwood

Frank Lockwood — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:12:33 +0000

And take a look at paragraphs 3 and 4 in the Times’ story.

The times makes assertions, in both graphs, about what will “probably” happen next, but doesn’t attribute the statements to anyone in the Episcopal Church or the Anglican Communion.

The claims are unattributed because they were based on guess work instead of actual interviews.

By: Dwight

Dwight — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:11:09 +0000

Two quick things

The Quincy being referred to is Quincy Illinois

I left the PCUSA because of the culture war fights. As a gay man, I’m not keen on being in a church where I’m the problem. As a liberal I’m not keen on being in a church where those on the left and right can use the machinery of the church against folks because of conscience. I raise this to suggest that it’s not always conservatives who leave mainline bodies.

By: Frank Lockwood

Frank Lockwood — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:05:50 +0000

There’s some real funny business in that New York Times story. Every single quote in that story was lifted from press releases and/or ‘news’ stories written by the public relations department of the Episcopal Church. Having been at the General Convention Wednesday through Sunday night, I can tell you the Times was not there when many of the quotations took place. Times employees never spoke at any of the press conferences and an Episcopal Church spokeswoman told me late Sunday that no one from the New York Times had traveled to the convention. This story appears to violate the Times’ own ethics policies post-Rick Bragg.

By: Sabrina

Sabrina — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 20:00:32 +0000

Chris, TMatt,

No — I got it. Snark and snide may be GR’s new motto, but I find it distasteful.

By: tmatt

tmatt — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:42:30 +0000

JULIA:

Ouch. Thanks for the correction. I changed it.

By: tmatt

tmatt — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:41:07 +0000

Sabrina:

Chris is right. This is a joke that conservative Episcopalians (early versions said the two priests were from Nashota House) tell about EACH OTHER. It’s the right that is the ultimate target of the joke.

By: Jim

Jim — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 19:05:33 +0000

If I read one more story like this about the Episcopal Church, I’m going to seeriously have to consider leaving… .

(Actually, I’ve been gone 10 years.)

By: Churches Struggle with Inclusion | Xenia Institute

Churches Struggle with Inclusion | Xenia Institute — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:43:44 +0000

[…] rather it’s selective inclusion that causes de facto exclusion. Most of the talk is about sexuality, especially since Integrity USA, a group of GLBT members of the church, has a very strong presence. […]

By: Chris Jones

Chris Jones — Tue, 14 Jul 2009 18:42:52 +0000

Sabrina,

I think you may have missed the point of the joke. It is poking fun at the seemingly infinite patience of the “conservative” priests, not at the syncretism nor the sexuality of the liberal lesbian clergy.